Hell Yeah. I love when P5 teams schedule a home and home. Can’t wait.
This would make a really good EVERY year end-of-season matchup for the two similar private colleges. It would add another SEC v ACC matchup to go along with UK/UL, USC/Clemson, UGa/GT, and UF/FSU, if played on the last weekend before conference championship games. (Hmmm, and if someone could get Mizzou/Kansas, and a XII-added Memphis against Tennessee on that last weekend….)
As a Vandy alum, there is no “private school rivalry” with Wake Forest. Vandy’s biggest rival is Tennessee (other historic rivals are Ole Miss, Kentucky, and Alabama, in that order). Wake is fine paired with Duke.
Memphis would be better paired with Arkansas than with Tennessee.
This was a last game of the season matchup for a few years a few years back.
Mr Vandy other than some success over the Black Bears you have no rivalry with the Vols or Tide. The ‘dores beat Alabama last in 1984 and have what 3 wins over the Vols in last 30 years.This is not Alabama/Auburn or Ohio State/Michigan by any stretch. Wake is a natural rival that you actually beat more often than you lose too..Congrats on getting a degree from one of the best schools in the country. You should thank Alabama. Auburn, Florida, LSU, Tennessee etc. for the big ass check Vandy gets each year from the SEC
Well, Mr Vandy, you MISSED the point. Playing an end-of-season game against an OOC helps set the stage for a more successful SEC championship game, as the winner of the SEC East Division would be known for two weeks, not just one. Of course, as others have pointed out, there’s no chance Vandy’s going to be in an SEC championship game anytime soon. Play your in-conference rival then the next-to-last week… if you find one.
Uga Hater- Vandy is Alabama’s third most played series (ahead of Auburn). Alabama has beaten Tennessee nine straight times, does that make that series less of a rivalry? I think not. Rivalries are about more than wins and losses (see Navy-Notre Dame). Plus Vandy’s rivalry with the teams I mentioned are more evenly matched and fiercely played in other sports (basketball, baseball). There is no “natural” rivalry with Wake. I’m not sure why you think it’s so “natural” just because they’re both academic schools. So we beat them more than we lose to them, so what? That does not make it a rivalry. History, geography, and competition make rivalries. As for the big check Vandy gets from the SEC (of which they contribute to in other sports they do well in), that money stays within the athletic department. It does not fund the academic side or my degree. FYI Vandy has the second biggest endowment fund in the SEC (second only to Texas A&M). So I can thank other alumni for the excellent education, not the SEC (the SEC can thank Vandy for being in the SEC, otherwise the SEC would get ZERO respect as to academics).
David- You’re saying I MISSED the point (of playing an end-of-season game against an OOC therefore helping set the stage for a more successful SEC championship game, as the winner of the SEC East Division would be known for two weeks, not just one)??? So under this theory, Alabama-Auburn should be played second-to-last week of regular season, along with Ole Miss-Mississippi St., Ohio St.-Michigan, and other rivalries. Because for some reason a conference championship game is more likely to be successful if we know who’s in it two weeks prior instead of one week prior? No wonder I missed the point, it makes no sense!! Ending the season with a meaningful game is what makes the most sense! Vandy and Tennessee have ended the season against each other going back to the 1920s (except for 2002-2013 where it was the second-to-last game, which was at Vandy’s request so that students could attend the game before leaving for Thanksgiving break; in 2009 it was the last game but on the second-to-last week).
If anything, having a meaningful game and/or a fierce rival on the last week is more exciting. How great would it be for a crappy Auburn team to beat an undefeated Alabama team in the last week, knocking them out of the SEC Championship game?
Say what you guys want, but UT-Vandy on rivalry week is here to stay, and Vandy-Wake is nothing more than just another game (btw the six or so years it was played at end of season did nothing to help foster a rivalry).
Personally, I’d love it if UGa closed with Tennessee every year. Lots of bad blood with the Vols and spills over into recruiting too. Tech is getting pretty boring.
I would love for Uga to cease football operations but thats just me
Is the deacon napping in that photo? He probably will be when watching those non-conference games.
not even sure those games are ESPN3 worthy
sad thing is Wake will lose at least 2 of those OOC games
Looks like a 5-7 schedule to me
Wake, living up to its reputation as “Duke Light”.
I love how Wellman bought five “buy games” and then made this statement:
“The financial guarantees that non-conference opponents are receiving today for ‘buy games’ have doubled and tripled from just a few years ago. Therefore, it is more realistic to play a home- and- away series against quality opponents than to ‘buy’ one-time games.”
Air Force and NIU are return trips from deals in the late 90’s early 00’s where those schools have pushed back as far as they could. Glad they’re finally confirmed.
Agreed on Air Force but I think the WFU-NIU 2001-2002 home and home was complete.
It is a good thing they at least played in 1 Orange Bowl (2006), because the above scheduling is a joke. So the only team they are playing from a P5 conference in the next 11 years is Vanderbilt. This is why ACC Football is a joke.
Wake also has the following previously announced games from 2017 on:
– Notre Dame in 2017, 2018, 2020, and 2023.
– UNC in non-conference games in 2019 and 2021.
– Ole Miss in 2024 and 2025.
– Purdue in 2026 and 2027.
Having a conference opponent as a non-conference game is a joke to me. I’m willing to bet both UNC and Wake Forest won’t be competing for a title when they play. The ACC is losing creditability for letting that happen.
For a top academic institution like Wake this is a very good schedule … Its exactly who they should be playing … Nice job … And Coach Clawson is going to have the Deacs playing good in a couple of years … I see a bunch of bowl seasons here … Nice scheduling !!!
East Carolina … nuff said …
It’s been way too long since ECU/WFU played. I’m with you.
Also, note the ACC is not counting Army as P5… unlike the lolSEC which counts them.
Haha, You’re so funny… not. Are there actually any SEC teams that have Army on their future schedules???
Actually what “StrickDeac” wrote is wrong, at least as it concerns NIU. It was not NIU pushing the game back but rather a very scared Wake Forest team.
Wake was hoping to “ride out the wave” on NIU’s “run” but it turns out that NIU isn’t going anywhere and is in fact only getting stronger the longer they wait. So they finally decided to “bite the bullet” and take their beating like men.
KUDOS to you, Deacons.
ACC Football is a joke I mean why in the he’ll would you schedule a team in your conference as a non conference game! And furthermore, not only Wake but all the ACC schools did a sorry job of scheduling in the future if they want to overpower the other P5 schools! The ACC should just stick to the sport they are good at and that’s Basketball not Football!
some people are sick
It is nice to see a meaningless game between 2 has beens (or never was) scheduled this far in advance. Has ESPN signed on yet to pick up this blockbuster?
Hey clueless. Not scheduling games in advance is why the SEC yearly plays the least P5’s, It’s why more than half of the vaunted ..lol..SEC west played no P5’s last year. It’s why Bama is always crying we can’t find a game..it’s b/c they wait to 1 o or 2 years in advance when by then everybody has already completed their P5 scheduling/
“SEC West played no P5’s last year.” What? W.Virginia, Wisconsin, K-State, Indiana & Texas Tech are teams the SEC played last year.
schoup is right on in regards to scheduling in advance. I give Wake and Purdue credit for scheduling this P5 vs. P5 match-up. Who knows how good or bad they’ll be in those years, but at least they’re scheduling the appropriate match-ups. And please don’t say Purdue has never matter, I’m sure they’re a few quarterbacks in the NFL that wouldn’t want to hear that (i.e. Brees, of today and Greise of yesterday, plus others). The SEC has plenty of opportunities to make scheduling match-ups, a team like Kentucky can perhaps schedule a Minnesota in out years or something like that,it may not seem like a big deal, but would be in a proper direction. The SEC has got to step up, I know there’s the fear of not getting enough “bowl” teams in due to wins, but,,,
I agree Billy, in my opinion Kentucky should keep Louisville as a rivalry game every year as they are playing them continuously now. Kentucky vs Minnesota sounds like an awesome match-up due to the fact both teams are not the “best” when it comes to football, no offense to Gopher or Wildcat fans.
Thanks day, appreciate it. Here’s another interesting fact to take in.
If you look at just the B1G and the SEC in 2016 and 2017 for non-conference scheduling here is further evidence how behind the SEC is. The B1G in 2016 has all 42 or their 42 NC games already scheduled (100%), in 2017 the B1G has 36 or their 42 NC games scheduled (86%). And now for the SEC, in 2016 the SEC has 43 of their 56 NC games scheduled (77%) and for 2017 the SEC has only 31 of their 56 NC games scheduled (55%). These two conferences are apparently playing the same system?
Some people may think the 2017 season is way out there, but it isn’t. The 2017 kick-off for college football is only 30 months away and the proper scheduling should have already started. Most often, bad planning leads to bad excuses, and the SC excuse no P5 teams will play us is a crook.
Hey by the way, I’ll continue to give LSU credit. They are one of the few SEC schools that most often schedules ahead and properly. They’re the only SEC to have both their 2016 and 2017 NC schedule set to this point. Go Tigers!!!
Try reading comprehension.
The B10 went on scheduling spree in the future when they decided to go to 9 games. When you have 9 games some years you have 5 home games and some 4 in conference. You have to plan you OOC out in advance and carefully to make sure you play your P5 OOC at home in years you have 4 conf home games. Many programs don’t want to play 6 away games..5 in conference and 1 OOC. Also, with phasing out FCS they have to plan more b/c getting a FCS games late is easy, as some FCS schools sometimes will cancel a game vs another FCS to get a pay day. The B10 also has gone to scheduling more midmajors as away games, some in oure home and home, some as 2 for 1’s
schoup said…., You’re spot on. Agree with what you have said. As you have said, The B10 has done a good job of planning and scheduling ahead with some vision. Whereas The SEC apparently lacks that skill of vision in scheduling future years. I know it may read as though I’m negative on The SEC, but it’s truly only with their lack of comparable scheduling to their so-called peer conferences. When The SEC as a whole starts and continues to schedule a competitive schedule I’ll back off.
And when they play each other, they still will be irrelevant
It’s funny how you know what recruits they will have 11 years from now. I’m sure you have the 6 thru 9 yr old pop warner leagues scouted and where those kids will go.
I think u-usa schools should play more meac swac and accept team
UNC is wrong. Cal and Colorado have played a non-conference game as Pac-12 members.
That occurred b/c the game was scheduled before Colorado joined making them the P12. It was better to keep the game and make it non conference than both teams having to find a game, They would have to get a pay game with a mid major or FCS school.
The writer points out that this is the first home for home series between two schools of the same conference that count as a non-conference game, which was not the case for Colorado and Cal game in 2011, as Colorado joined the Pac-10/12 in 2011 and the front end game of that series was 2010 when both were still in separate conferences, and series was scheduled back in 2004. hedules.com/2011/09/california-colorado-non-conference-football-game/
I am glad they playing, long series history, 105 games, started in 1888, I would play that game every year, not a fan of either school, but why play random school, when you can that games with series history like that. I am fan of Miami Hurricanes, I wish Florida would go for home for home series, but they want to do a couple of neutral site games like in Jacksonville/Orlando which would be more a home game. I would be up for at least couple of neutral sites games, but I want a home for home regular series.
UNC’s claim seems like a reach.
This is why it would.be really nice if the ACC coud switch to an non-division, eight-game schedule where every team plays every other team at least twice every four years.
They would not be allowed to have a championship game if they did that.
They would be allowed to have a Championship game if that happened. Cant have a championship game if the conference is under a certain number of teams.
The ACC teams really don’t buy into overall scheduling guidance. Thoughts that FCS opponents could be phased out long-term caused NCSU to schedule nine of them. A requirement to play a P5 team non-conference caused UNC and WFU to schedule each other.
Its that daggum state of North Carolina. Every school you just mentioned is located in the state of North Carolina. These basketball schools are conspiring together to destroy the College Football Playoff!
This exposes some of the real problems with the current ACC Divisions that ignore geography. If non-divisional play is impossible, why not add 2 schools and realign by geographic regions.
1. NORTH – Boston College, Connecticut, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
2. CENTRAL – Cincinnati, Louisville, Virginia, Virginia Tech
3. ATLANTIC – Duke, North Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest
4. COASTAL – Clemson, Georgia Tech, FSU, Miami
For football scheduling, a team would play 3 divisional games and 2 games with teams from each of the other divisions each year for a total of 9 games. Every team would play each other at least every two years, with close geographic rivals playing every year.
This would also make the strongest Power 5 basketball conference even stronger.
Expansion is about markets, Cincy does not add even close to enough value to get an offer from the ACC. UConn is bball school and their market hartford/boston is already covered by BC. Hartford itself is not worth much when you’re talking tv contracts and markets that guide expansion. They aren’t going to split the pie 2 more ways when those teams won’t increase every schools share.
The ACC doesn’t need to add 2 schools with little to no value as things stand now as nobody else has 16 teams. They just need to play a 9 game conf schedule which the B12, P12 already play and the B10 is going to in 1 more year. 9 games in a 6-3 format like the B10 means over 10 years you play each team in the other division atleast 4 times and 2 of them 5 times, Under their current format you play 6 of the 7 teams once every 6 years and a permanent cross over every year.
Sometimes it would be nice if everything did not have to revolve around tv and monetary values… in the old days things like distance and rivalry really mattered.
You can’t have a championship game under that model.
Do it similarly to the way the NFL does it: Do a full round-robin with your own division plus four from another. Then add in two more games from the remaining divisions.
You could tweak that idea to ensure every school plays every other home and away every four years, too.
Moreover, Boston College won’t allow UConn into the conference since it would encroach on their “territory.”
Not a terrible idea, RB, but have it instead add Navy and somehow Notre Dame? How to pull that off? Adding Navy for football only, rather than Cincinnati. Tweak your first two divisions:
1. NORTH – Notre Dame, Boston College, Pitt, Navy
2. EAST – Syracuse, Louisville, Virginia, Va Tech
That way, Notre Dame plays BC, Pitt, and Navy every year, three annuals they’d be fine with (saving their Navy rivalry and restoring Pitt & BC). They’d have FSU or Miami every year, and Syracuse or Louisville every year. And with the 3 remaining games, they can pick up USC and Stanford every year, and have a game still to play with. The only way to lock in ND is to bring in their longest rival. Adding Navy for football only is a perfect way to go. Brings back games in the DC and Baltimore markets, plus a *national* following. Navy and Notre Dame add MUCH more than UConn and UC.
I think the NCAA would allow an exemption for a 16 team conference (per Ace above) to have some sort of championship game if Ace’s plan were in effect.
Choosing the two championship game teams:
Best conference records
Two teams tie:
First tie-break head-to-head – the one that won the match between them is elevated
Second tie-break strength of victory – cumulative record of conference teams beaten compared
Third tie break – strength of schedule – cumulative records of all conference teams compared
Fourth tie-break – greatest point differential
Fifth tie break – most TD’s
Sixth tie break – coin flip
More than two teams tie:
Head-to-head – all teams must have played each other to use this
Strength of victory in conference
Strength of schedule in conference
Greatest point differential
If at any point in the 3-or-more tie break rules a team or teams are eliminated, then the process starts over with this list if three or more teams still remain. IF only two teams remain, start over at the top of the 2-team formula. If only one team remains, that team is elevated.
This process would be for setting first place first, then second place. That is, run the scheme until you have a champ. Then run the scheme again until second place has been decided.
Team claiming the top seed hosts the game.
Agreed. Adding more schools is not a solution!! 9 game conference play is were it needs to go. Some schools don’t like it with the Norte Dame agreement and the 4 schools with the SEC rivals. Eliminate FCS games!! I would rather UNC and Wake play each other as OOC game, then playing some FCS team. ( they probably will still play one FCS!)
This is why adding Notre Dame and football-only Navy is outright the solution to all of this. 9 conference games. 3 divisional, alternate the other 6.
Their are plenty of G-5 teams out there needing games. I think this is a low-class move by these two schools who could have simply scheduled a quality G-5 or P-5 school instead of taking the easy way out and adding a de facto 9th conference game.
UNC or WF scheduling Akron, Ball State, Arkansas State, Indiana, or Northwestern would be a snooze fest and a money trap.
These two schools are an hour apart and have a rivalry deeply invested – it would matter to the fans and players. Add in the fact its a bus ride away and a guaranteed sell-out.
We’re going to get the point where G5 schools are left out completely from the P5 in the regular season. Whether that’s right or wrong, it’s not for me to decide.
There’s nothing to win for P5 schools to be playing G5 ones. FCS game are at least a tune up.
If the ACC is so worried about money having pay games or what you called money traps, than go to a 9 game conf. It eliminates 1 pay game a year. The B10 move to 9 games was done for several reasons, first with 14 teams you need 9 gamed or you play the cross division teams twice every 12 years in a 6-1–1 format. Another reason cited was the average pay game has risen to dramatically. The combined total of all the pay games for B10 schools was 1mil/game. The FCS schools are upping their prices, they are being phased out by B10 and the midmajors are wanting 1.2 or 1.3 mil for the better schools.
It’s absurd that the Tobacco Road schools aren’t in the same division. Ideally the current ACC divisions go the way of Leaders/Legends one day.
Amen. If the ACC stays at 14, it should adjust to:
ATLANTIC: UNC, NCSU, Duke, Wake, Virginia, VT, Clemson
COASTAL: Tech, FSU, Miami, BC, Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville
No need for locked other-division rivalry games, which at least means with 8 conference games you see the other division teams all every 4th year at the worst. With 9 conference games, this is even better… play the other 6 and see the other division teams every 3rd year at worst.
David. That alignment actually makes sense in terms of keeping rivalries. Maybe just switch the names of the divisions since your Atlantic teams are generally closer to the ocean than your Coastal teams.
It’s good to see the two playing each other, but I find it unfortunate that it is a non-conference game. I have shared my wishes before, but I believe that all “Power Five” Conferences should have a nine game conference schedule and a minimum of one of their three non-conference opponents being that of an opposing “Power Five” Conference school. If the “Power Five” schools are to be looked at as “equal” to one-another, then their scheduling should have like comparables.
This is a good idea I think the UNC and WF fans will enjoy the games.
This is the most important factor.
Ehh, I don’t like it. Not that other schools’ scheduling helps with this all the time either, but to me one of the main reasons that there are OOC games is to show how teams stack up against other conferences. I’m not saying that the ACC shouldn’t work out something internally if they want to play more regional games… they could go north/south (except everyone wants to play games in Florida) or they could try to get some kind of exemption to allow 4 divisions as the other poster above suggested. But come on, there need to be more games between the power 5 conferences now, not fewer.
This is the result of P5 conferences getting so large that even in State rivalries stop getting played every year. In FCS Big Sky you usually see 2 or 3 non-conference games between Big Sky schools who were not scheduled to play each other.
I will not be surprised the Pac-12 hasn’t had some of the California schools schedule OOC games against each other. Sooner or later Stanford will not have USC or not have UCLA on their schedule, ditto Cal. These games are so ingrained in Californian’s minds that its impossible to conceive of Cal playing Utah instead of UCLA or Stanford playing Colorado instead of USC.
Note, I noticed Stanford and USC left one non-conference game unscheduled in 2016, and USC has left the 3rd game unscheduled after 2015. I wonder if there is some hedging to see what the Pac-12 schedule will be. Remember earlier the B1G schools have talked of playing non-conference games against other B1G schools, and some wanted even 10 conference games!
This type of in house non-conference game will be a trend IMO
Last time I looked the Pac 12 in conference schedule was set thru the early 2020’s season. Everyone already knows who they are playing. ACC set their rotation of conf games thru 2024 and others have as well.
Btw, you have no idea what you’re talking about about Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA not having each other on their schedules. The way the p12 works is that all the california schools play each other every year. It’s how their 5-4 format works.
USC is not hedging, they know their in conf opponents, their 3rd game is unscheduled in many years b/c in several years they already have 2 P5’s, so the 3rd will be a midmajor, that they haven’t booked. Some other years they have P5 and BYU, which is one of the better midmajors, so the 3rd maybe another midmajor or another P5. Maybe you didn’t notice they are playing 2 p5 OOC most years so the third game is going to be a midmajor(USC has never played a FCS school).
The B10 talking about 10 conf games was about money. The average cost of pay games has sky rocketed to 800K for midmajors and the better midmajors want 1 million or more. The b10 is phasing out FCS games which you could pay 400 or 500K
You are right. The Pac-12 made that concession to the Cal schools. It means the Oregon and Washington schools only play one of the So Cal schools and the Arizona, Utah, and Colorado schools only play one of the Nor Cal schools. At least through the first rotation completed in 2017 (2010 season through 2017, 8 years). Seattle Times has a pdf on line with that info.
I had forgotten about that. So that Pac-12 probably wont see any non-conference in house games as they also play 9 already.
I stand corrected.
This is what happens when you chew too much tobacco. You start dating your next door neighbors.
Alabama and Ole Miss played a non-conference series in 1980-81. SEC had instituted a minimum/maximum 6 conference game requirement effective in 1980. Both had already scheduled 7 conference games for 80-81, so they played those games as non-conference games.
Correction: Min/max rule was already in effect when Bama and Ole Miss scheduled the 1980-81 series. Therefore, UNC and WF are not the first to play a series “originally scheduled as non-conference games.”
The ACC should realign their divisions so that it is the following:
BC, Syr, Pitt, Lou, VT, Virg, WF
UNC, NC St, Duke, Clem, GT, FSU, Mia.
For WF, to preserve their NC rivalries, they would play 6 divisional games, 1 other NC opponent, and 1 other South div opponent. The rotation could go like this:
Year 1: UNC & Clem
Year 2: Duke and GT
Year 3: NC St and FSU
Year 4: UNC and Mia
Year 5: Duke and Clem
Year 6: NC St and GT
Year 7: UNC and FSU
Year 8: Duke and Mia
Year 9: NC St and Clem
Year 10: UNC and GT
Year 11: Duke and FSU
Year 12: NC St and Mia
Well if nothing else it will guarantee that the ACC goes 0.500 in these two OOC games. That can’t be good for the ACC’s W-L column and it certainly won’t help their bowl chances at least for the loser.
This is what happens when you get too darn big. I wish all conferences would max out at 9 or 10 teams, 8 conf games (4h-4a), no conf. champ game. Winner is guaranteed a certain bowl game slot, like it was 15 years ago……
They should’ve done 3 games with the 3rd being at BoA Stadium