Since the Big 12 TV contracts and GOR expire before the games are played, I wonder what conference TCU will be in when they both take the field.
Well, Jim, what do you speculate it would be? I suspect the XII will still be around. Even if Texas goes independent and Oklahoma and Ok State leave for the SEC… they can just reload with schools they could have taken already, viz. BYU, Houston, Cincinnati, Memphis, UCF, USF. So, TCU will be in a ‘different’ XII?
If Texas and the Oklahoma schools leave would the Playoff Committee even consider the BigXII a P5 Conference any longer?
Exactly my point. The Kansas schools and Iowa St don’t exactly move the sports needle, except for Kansas basketball. TCU would more likely be looking at joining the American than teams from the American would look to be joining the remnants of the Big 12.
Sad that a nice H&H game is scheduled and a pretty interesting discussion about Big12 relevance down the road but the usual SEC trolls like O-Da-Do-Da-Day and Billy Bob Joe are totally absent from any discussion.
Not real football fans. SEC fanboys.
This clearly shows how immature you truly are.
Arlitces like this are an example of quick, helpful answers.
I cannot tell a lie, that really hedelp.
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This is a cute article, I would’ve kept out A&M vs UTSA since this is their 1st ever meeting.
If you watched the 2014 Georgia Southern @ Georgia Tech game or better yet, if you attended the game, then you would know the ACC referees took the game out of the players hands with a terrible reversal of an ON THE FIELD call (requires indisputable evidence…it’s still being disputed). Georgia Southern was the better team that day and still has the more dynamic roster. Thank you Paul Johnson and the Tech AD for not being scared (UGAg) and rescheduling the Eagles…GS won’t leave it in question this go around. It would be great for the state if GS and Tech continued to schedule a game (maybe a H&H once Paulson Stadium is expanded to 30k) every other year. Athletically, as of late, the two schools are closer to peers than big brother-little brother.
Georgia has played Georgia Southern six times since 1992, Georgia Tech only once. I don’t think Georgia is scared of GS.
Interesting that 5 of those 6 times were when Georgia Southern had 63 scholarships. The 6th game was a carry over from GS’s FCS days and Georgia elected to move the game from 2016 to 2015 probably because they didn’t want an additional year of FBS recruiting for GS. Georgia was gifted that win last year and every dawg fan knows it. For both parties, it is understood that Georgia no longer wants any part in scheduling GS and frankly that’s fine by me.
Don’t worry Kevin Kelly, that’s just GS non-sense talk. They told GSU that they’d never beat GS – but in the just the second meeting (last year) GSU gave them their worst defeat in the history of Paulson High School County Stadium, The glory days of GS are behind them. The newsflash to GS is that they are the #4 team in the state of Georgia and they think that they are #1.
Georgia Tech got up big in that game and then let up and allowed Georgia Southern back in, the Eagles were far from the better team that day.
Georgia Southern’s coach was on his way out and focused on a million dollar salary…way to go. How’d that bowl game work out for the mighty Panthers? Let’s compare some numbers for a minute…17-53 (129th in FBS) vs. 375-200-10 (14th in FBS)…0 D1 National Championships vs. 6 D1 National Championships (most all-time)…0 D1 Conference Titles vs. 11 D1 Conference Titles. WHEW! I can certainly understand why a Panther fan (those exist?) would cling like hell to that win against Georgia Southern! Run along now, let us men get back to it.
GS has never beat UGA – GS has never beat GT – GS is 50/50 against GSU.
So your excuse is that GS got pounded at home by GSU cause your coach was dreaming about a real job? Really? That’s all it took for the mighty Beagles to lose at home? A coach’s daydream? All that tripe that GS spews about GSU and you got pounded in just the second effing year by a five year old football team? Fact is that Richt got fired because he almost lost to GS so that should tell you about how little respect there is for the GS product. So maybe GS needs to realize that they may start to fall behind KSU or Mercer. You guys have such an incredible false sense of entitlement from all those Pee-Wee league trophies. Probably ought to go on back to FCS Pee-Wee league! How about that Capt GAyTAy?
The Real GSU has played UGA and GT once with equal scholarships. Do you understand that having 22 less scholarships is a disadvantage? Once the playing field was made even, the Real GSU lost by a combined 10 points in their first outings with 85 scholarships. Again, I appreciate GT rescheduling the Real GSU unlike UGAg (I bet you’re a UGAg fan before a GAy St fan). Do you understand that when a head coach does not prep their team for a game that the team is unprepared? Big concepts here. Do you have any facts or just opinions? Richt was on the hot seat at the start of that season and the season before that…try to keep up. The fact that you recognize KSU and Mercer says a lot about where you view GAy St. Pee-Wee trophies…you’re talking about Division 1 National Championships. Do you understand that prior to the College Football Playoff, the FCS Playoff was the highest form of a college football playoff in existence? Oh but computers picking two teams worked out every time. The Real GSU should go back to FCS? You mean the Real GSU with the 18-7 FBS record (.720)? How about GAy St with the 7-30 FBS record (.189). This is too easy man, c’mon. (A) Why would GAy St field a football team and (B) why would ANYONE be a fan???? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!
Southern has never beaten Georgia and never will.
The “REAL” GSU just beat the GaSo clown big talkers AGAIN! GAyTAy!!!
So GaSo now has a LOSING record against GSU along with
never beating UGA and GT! So just go STFU !!!!!!!!!!
what about the Brigham Young-Utah State game or the Notre Dame-Navy game?
Neither BYU nor USU are a Power 5. And Notre Dame and Navy aren’t in the same state.
Matt probably meant to say the BYU-Utah game. Utah is a P5, but BYU is not. The summary would read something like this:
When: Saturday, Sept. 10, 5:30pm MT
Where: Rice-Eccles Stadium, Salt Lake City, UT
All-Time Series Leader: Utah, 58-34-4 (62.5%)
Last-Five: Utah, 5-0 (100%)
Utah has dominated its little brother, BYU, over the last 13 meetings (10-3, 77%). And they will certainly do so again this fall.
how would BYU qualify as a “Big” brother?
Bill, Utah would be the big brother
Someone asked that on Twitter, FBSchedules replied “BYU generally considered P5 so not included.”
BYU fits the P5 requirement for scheduling for most if not all conferences. The SEC looks at BYU as a P5…last time I checked the SEC is the premier program in College Football.
good article ….but i would say Georgia Southern has a much better chance of beating Georgia Tech than many of the games you have ranked as more likely. I don’t think very many people would be surprised is Georgia Southern wins that game.
Utah had to be invited to a conference to be considered P5. BYU did it on their own.
BYU is considered by some to be a P5 “for scheduling purposes.” But we’re not actually a P5, since we don’t belong to a P5 conference. That’s why it’s so important for us to get into the Big XII…the fate and viability of our football program rests on it. If we don’t get in and become an actual P5, our future looks no better than that of New Mexico State.
By that thinking, Toledo would also be considered a Power 5 Power Team, since it can beat 1/2 or more of teams from Power 5 Conferences…
Little brother = going on every web site possible to talk about how Utah should really be a big brother
I think ECU is NC State’s big brother when it comes to football.
ECU has not only won 3 out of 5, but 9 out of the last 15.
Go Pirates! Argh!
What about Penn State vs Pitt this year?
Pitt is P5.
PSU is B1G/Power 5 also
I don’t think many Ohio State fans see any MAC schools as “little brother.” The only school that would make sense to have that designation would be U of Cincinnati.
Toledo, Ohio and BGSU, Ohio are both vastly better than Cincinnati, Ohio !!! As is Ohio Bobcats
Where is Alabama-Auburn? Auburn is the ultimate “Little Brother” who lives to beat Big Brother, Alabama. Alabama lives to win national championships; Auburn lives to beat Alabama.
When they say little brother, I think they actually mean LITTLE BROTHER! Auburn is not a little brother to Bama, same conference, same league, Auburn has done their fair share of butt whooping on Bama in the past. If that was the case then the article would have Michigan vs Michigan St.
FSU is also UF’s big brother.
“What they’ve lacked is an undefeated season. Perfection, and a real case for inclusion in the national championship discussion, is the difference.”
It’s not about the wins, it’s about the money.
Probably making too much of this. The fact that both these programs have winning records in their respective conferences is good enough for me. Neither TCU nor Utah had played P5 teams on a regular basis but are doing so now. It’s amazing both programs can stand toe-to-toe with their new conference mates given the sudden uptick in competition week in, week out now.
It’s unfair to ask teams with MWC rosters to duplicate what they did in the MWC in the Big XII or Pac-12. However, the fact they even come close to doing so is quite impressive. Now that they can attract P5-level recruits and will now have seniors who have played their whole careers in a P5 conference you’re going to have to look out for TCU and Utah in the future.
This article is totally off. It is not about the winning, it is about money, market expansion and selling tickets. 68,000 seat stadium, 22,000 seat arena and one of the largest international alumni/fan bases, Brigham Young is worth a lot of money. It would be stupid to leave 100 million of annual tickets sales on the sideline because softball, soccer and whatever would not play on Sunday. The Big 12 is located in the Christian conservative bread basket so the current Big 12 members only play on Sunday if they have too as it is. The Big 12 has flirted the Brigham Young the most.
Houston, is located in one of the 10 largest cities in the World. So, that is worth something significant.
Cincinnati is located in a strong geographical fit and strong media market. Game on
Then add Memphis for 14 members and become the best basketball conference in the country, along with getting a foot print into SEC territory.
The economics clearly state Brigham Young, Houston, Cincinnati and Memphis are the ones for the Big 12 to add.
I think Houston would fit quite well in the Big-12, not really sure how they ended up in the AAC. They might get more powerful with recruits if they become a P5 team in the Big-12.
It’s real simple how Houston ended up in the AAC it’s because of the market they are in. Honestly Houston would probably get their footing in the Big 12 but it would take longer than TCU did.
Reason I believe that to be the case is by the time Houston would get into the Big 12, most of the players that propelled them to last years strong season would have graduated so you potentially could be looking at a new QB, a revamped offense (I doubt Herman will be there much past the next 2 years), and their coordinators would probably leave also.
Ultimately, TCU was the benefactor of the Big 12 needing a “close” school to their geographical standpoint.
In reality there’s only 1 or 2 programs that have had sustained success that currently belong in Power 5 conferences, and that’s Boise State and possibly BYU (obviously Notre Dame is considered a Power 5 program). If Houston has a decade where they win 8-9-10 games every year then maybe they belong but as it stands right now, their best record in school history isn’t enough to get them in to a power 5 conference. Plus I doubt the Oklahomas of the conference would be jumping for another Texas school in the conference.
The fact that this article list Houston first (and most) as a Big 12 expansion candidate suggests that the writer hasn’t quite followed all the background of what expansion is about. While Houston has had some impressive seasons, and last year was rather good, expansion isn’t solely about who is the best team. Unless the Big 12 plans to expand to 14 or more, Houston would be better served grabbing a travel partner and making a pitch to the Pac 12, whose geography makes it tough to see them expanding without a Texas team.
The Big 12 members who are clamoring for sxpansion are also the ones who are pushing for a Big 12 Network (and probably the dissolution if the Lonhorn Network in that pursuit). While I think the classic cable network model will start to lose some sway as people start leaning more and more towards a la carte options and such (where a whole state’s cable-subscribing population can no longer be depended upon to cover a conference network, whether they’re watching it or not), that’s still the model that college athletics is focusing on and the one the Big 12 seems most likely to pursue if they are able to.
And that’s why Houston would basically be as bad a choice as they could make for any of their (first 3, at least) candidates. Basically, if the Big 12 does expand right now, and Houston is in the group, it will be the Big 12 saying “ok, we give up. There’s no way we can compete money-wise so we’re going to just have the current pie (plus a tiny more since there will be a few more televised games) divided more ways than before. This would likely be the straw that broke the camel’s back, setting the dominoes falling towards an exodus, once the GoR is up in a few years, of any of the teams who have the ability to make a move. So around 2025, the end result would be a Big 12 with Houston but without Texas, Oklahoma, and likely a few others.
If the Big 12 does expand it will be in states they don’t currently have members in, in the hope that they can convince the TV people that Cincy, when playing the right opponents, can deliver a serious chunk of the Ohio market, or that Memphis can deliver a considerable amount of Tennessee… or UCF can Florida, or UConn can Connecticut and a bit if New York. Or BYU can bring Mormon fans to their TV sets nationally.
Not trying to insult Houston here. If the last round of expansion happened now rather than when it did, UofH would probably be neck-and-neck with TCU as far as who would get in. Both are in metro areas of the state, and wile TCU’s longevity of their success would be appealing, Houston’s student body and alumni numbers would be a definite counterargument. But it happened then, not now. The Big 12 has 4 teams from Texas already (and is doubled up in 2 other less-populous states). I honestly don’t believe there are currently any candidates out there who benefit the conference more than they’d hurt it for now, but if you were to be optimistic and say that the TV people would be happy to dole out a significant amount of money for Memphis drawing in the Tennessee market, or Cincy drawing the Ohio market, and that the upgrade in conference membership would propel the invitees to new levels of success… those footprint-expanding gambles would be the gambles to make. Not Houston.
I live north of Houston, adding UH doesn’t do anything at all for the Big 12. This is predominately TAMU country due to the proximity, but if you launch a Big 12 Network you’ve already got the TV market covered with UT and to a lesser extent Baylor, TCU, and TTU. The Big 12 is pretty much left with the slim pickings at this point, they should’ve grabbed Louisville while they were available and they could’ve added Cincinnati to give WVU more logical travel partners.
The problem with this is because he knows none of these schools will bring in huge amounts of revenue with them, and because of the fact that he is to much of a dam liberal craving for money. Bowlsby is having a hard time excepting the fact that no matter which way he goes about this, he knows he is not going to be able to compete money wise with all the other conferences right now, and that the only thing he really can do is just try to build a stable foundation for the future so he maybe could grab some potential big revenue schools such as Florida St. or Clemson. Because of this problem, the Big 12 is having a hard time trying to move forward to expand. Though because they know that the only way this conference is ever going to survive is by expanding. Bowlsby, whether he likes it or not, knows he is going to have to accept the reality of what’s gone on. Which gets us to this point right here is. Out of all the schools, which ones do they think will give this conference stability until realignment happens in the 20’s.
In my opinion I think they need to go to 14 teams and the first two teams are obvious choices and that’s Memphis and Houston and the reason for them are simple. Houston is the first choice because of the stability they bring and the future potential they have. Even though Houston won’t bring in any potential future revenue the stability they the Big12 is enormous for a couple of reasons. 1. Adding Houston would help the Big12 dig in to the recruiting pipeline of A&M and LSU and help steal recruits away from them, which if you haven’t noticed is a huge recruiting ground for both of them. 2. It would help stabilize the market for the Big12 and possible even help steal a couple of thousand tvs away from the SEC, when you consider that the only reason that some of the people down there root for A&M is because all of them hate Texas and the reason they chose A&M was because it was the next closest school to them that was in a p5 conference. With that said Houston would be like a barrier for the Big12 in keeping the SEC out of Texas.
Memphis is the next best choice because of the potential value it has. 1. If Memphis can stay competitive in both football and basketball. Their potential tv market could expand greatly, especially by the time basketball season rolls around considering Tennessee’s basketball program is trash. The Big12 would basically be able to control the basketball market in this that state considering Memphis is the only competitive p5 team in that state. On top of that with Memphis updating all their facilities with the new money they have, the potential for even more money coming from higher ticket prices would be there to. 2. Adding Memphis would allow the Big12 to dig into the SEC territory both in recruiting somewhat and in the market, considering if the is nothing big is going in the SEC people could switch off and watch Memphis play a ranked team such as TCU, OU, or Okst, which would help steal viewers off the SEC Network here and there.
In my opinion I think the other two teams should be Cincy and Boise st for different reasons. I chose Cincy because it allows them to get into a new market. Though the problem with Cincy is the only place they are going to get views from is Cincy. On top of that with Cincy still sitting right in the middle of the conference they are in terms of rankings, nobody knows if they are going to be able to compete in the Big12. Because of that their viewer market is going to go up and down depending on how good they do, considering a lot of them will just flip over to watch Ohio st.
I chose Boise st for a couple of reason. 1. Even though the market in Idaho is very small. If Boise st can stay competitive in football their potential market outside of the state could be a lot larger. Especially states such as Colorado, when you consider they have no good teams. The potential for them to get into larger markets such as Denver is really great.
I know you maybe wondering why I didn’t included the two Florida schools. The reason I never chose them was, considering how small of the market they have and considering how much they struggle as is in their current conferences. Bringing them up into the Big12 will make it practically impossible for them to win, which basically cuts that already small market in half to basically nothing considering nobody is going to watch a team consistently lose. With that being said all adding a Florida team will do is cut into the revenue the team we currently have are making and that will surely piss teams like TCU, Tech, OU, and Okst the hell off. Which brings me to this point. The only way the Big12 is going to get into the Florida market is by taking Florida st away from the ACC come conference realignment time.
Not sure how long West Virginia is going to last in The Big-12.
Would West Virginia possibly end up in the Atlantic Coast Conference or the American Athletic Conference if they are no longer in the Big 12 at some point?
In my opinion West Virginia will fit perfect in the ACC, there you will have in conferences rivalries with Va.Tech, Virginia & don’t forget the backyard brawl with Pitt. I never liked the mountaineers in the Big-12, makes no sense to me. I think West Virginia is too big of a team to head back to the AAC. If they can bring something to the table like recruiting or TV market then I could see the SEC going after them as well.
I miss the old backyard brawl rivalry between West Virginia and Pittsburgh. It would be great to see that annually again!
Basically the ACC inviting WVU would be like the Pac12 inviting New Mexico.
Can’t compare TCU and Utah to Houston, Memphis, UCF, Colorado State. TCU and Utah were top national programs when they switched, then just had an adjustment period to begin competing again at high levels. These other schools do not show to have that same track record or ability to make that adjustment, IMO.
Agreed. Utah had two undefeated seasons with BCS bowl wins before joining the Pac-12. TCU had an undefeated season and a Rose Bowl win, and another BCS bowl appearance before joining the Big 12. Both teams had several excellent seasons, not just one or two, before “moving up”. And both still have the same excellent head coach now that they’ve had for more than 10 years. Those are the reasons that Utah and TCU have only had slight drop-offs in total number of wins since “moving up” to stronger football conferences.
Teams with less history of success, or more coaching turnover, or both, would get crushed their first several years after moving up. Instead of matching TCU’s first several years in the Big 12, they’d be more like Baylor’s first several years in the Big 12 when Baylor averaged only 1 conference win per year.
12 team expansion: BYU and Memphis. 14 team expansion: BYU, Boise state, Cincinnati, and Memphis. Best bet for the Big 12.
Agree with @David May and @MJB – Colorado moved to PAC-12 same time Utah did, and has only won maybe a half-dozen conference games total in 5 years – they can’t hang. Even the first season, Utah was in a three-way tie for PAC-12 South title until their last game – which ironically was the only Colorado conference win that year besides Arizona, which is the only PAC-12 team the Utes haven’t beaten in-conference.
Utah beat Arizona first year in the conference 2011.
Adding Houston would be a big mistake for the rest of the Big 12, they would lose the recuting edge in Houston. Adding BYU and Cincinnati would be best idea, they get the world following from BYU and the Ohio market of Cincinnati
Who is the Rocket Scientist that decided to rent out Jerry World to play the worst team in teh Big 12?
I get that you’re going to play KU, its on the schedule can’t really trade them in for, say,…a team with a winning record. But somebody please tell me Tech isn’t giving up ticket sales and paying rent for Jerry World to play a world class L O S E R.
Somebody please tell me Tech isn’t intentionally losing money on this game….
TT plays at the Jones AT&T Stadium in Lubbock Texas. That is where the KU-TT game will be played. I anticipate an audience of 10s
Did the UT games garner that terrible of ratings that they’re getting bumped from the (somewhat recent) traditional Thanksgiving evening slot?
Lots of factors going into this, to be sure. For one, yeah, Texas hasn’t been at their best so it wasn’t the ideal time to try to “amend” a tradition. Plus, I’m not sure the flipping back-and-forth between Tech and TCU and having it ON Thanksgiving is working that well anyway. Now that (former UT athletic director) Patterson is gone, I could see the administration seeing the reality of the situation: it worked well when you hosted a game every other year against a rival, but hosting the game EVERY year? As a Texas alum and fan, I’ve had to go from a situation where I could alternate between hosting Thanksgiving in Austin and attending the game and then following up with traveling to see other family and watching on TV… to a situation where I either miss half the games or piss off my family from ducking a family holiday to go to the game every year. I’d imagine that lots of the students, alumni, fans, and even the university and stadium staff are facing the same thing. So, personally, I don’t know if UT was going to argue with this too much. It would be far more ideal if the game was in Austin on thanksgiving semi-annually, but TCU and Tech are both even less prepared to host the game on turkey day.
Maybe it will be an every-other-year thing now…? But as you pointed out, even when we were playing A&M the game had often been played on black Friday…
I went to the 2009 game at A&M when I went to SHSU, I had a great time – but I am also a native Metro Detroiter, and the Lions game is of course a yearly tradition. I think something like that needs more time for people to become accustomed to, or a better time slot. With the Lions always playing the early game it worked out well if we attended the game and then did a family function, I can see how the evening UT slot made that more difficult.
Tech would get a 5pm kickoff on Sept 29 against Kansas. This seems really positive since they had no night games at home in 2015. All good right?
Really hard to believe Stanford and Vanderbilt have never played. Seems like Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vandy, Rice, Army, and Navy are constantly playing series with each other.
It’s nice to see that TCU is doing the right thing and beefing up their schedule. Baylor on the other hand, isn’t doing much of nothing.
Come on Tulane, schedule like you are a serious player.